tsukihime fate mahoyo rakkyo merubura

Staff Roundtable - The Second Night

Published on in 2001
The First Night | The Second Night
Translation by Molokidan

The Second Night
This was a late night chat that happened on March 3, 2001. It was the second staff chat, with the same three members: Takeuchi Takashi, Nasu Kinoko, and OKSG. The theme this time was "Ciel." There were some strange ideas, happenings, and nonsense spouted, but we actually covered a lot of ground!
Late in the evening on March 3, 2001, in a certain chat room--
Takeuchi Shall we begin?
Nasu Yessir!
Well then, I hereby begin the second staff chat. What's our theme this time?
Takeuchi The Chapter of Ciel! you say (laugh)
Nasu Please quest me! (*1)
Takeuchi for me?
OK, I guess we'll start off with "What gave birth to Ciel?"
Takeuchi Ciel was a character born from a symbol.
Nasu We needed an older sister character, that was the most basic reason. Right?
Takeuchi A senpai, glasses, someone who fights with vampires! That's what we needed.
Nasu Yeah. She was created as an antagonist on the church side who could face Arc.
Takeuchi Older sister characters don't really push my buttons. Maybe that's why she turned out the way she did.
Nasu At first, she wasn't such a flashy (flashy even though she's so plain) character.
Takeuchi Plain AND flashy (laugh)
Nasu That's when I thought of Chime. Chime. The aide from 「Flowers of Ice」. (*2)
Takeuchi Chime... so that was it.
Nasu She's brisk, speaks politely, is a talented secretary, but is still somewhat cute.
Ahh, I can see it all now... (laugh)
Takeuchi It took us a bit to decide on her name. Were there any other candidates?
Nasu Alt (laugh). But Take-chan said we wouldn't be able to tell her apart from Arc, so we couldn't use it. (*3) That was the only other one. Shiki had a lot, but everyone else only had one or two.
Takeuchi Shiki was Tachie at first, wasn't he.
Nasu Tachie. I liked that name. That echo. I was thinking of names that could sound like English names as well, like Roa's.
You mean Roa's name was decided from the beginning?
Nasu Roa was... well, he came from a draft of 「Angel Notes」. (*4) Nero was decided instantly. Hisui and Kohaku were Tohno.
Takeuchi You also said you liked Madoka and Tomoe. But once their stories were decided, Hisui and Kohaku felt the best.
The names Hisui and Kohaku also convey impressions of color.
Takeuchi Personally, I think they're very good names.
Nasu I think Akiha was Misaya.
Speaking of Tohno, did you ever think of doing a crossover with 「Kara no Kyoukai」? (*5)
Nasu No, even though the word rules (special powers/magic) are the same. They're both just "small happenings in a single world."" That's why the first main character I made is Aoko-san. (*6)
Nasu Now that I think about it, Ciel's name has the most meaning... in a sort of "Oh man, I can't believe I did it" way...
Oh, are you talking about the L'arc en Ciel incident? (*7)
Nasu Ah, now I remember. Ciel's initial concept. She was older, yet acted younger.
Takeuchi In the beginning, we were aiming for "cute" with Ciel.
Nasu But she is cute. (*8)
Takeuchi Really? I think she became more of a cool character.
Nasu As far as I'm concerned, Ciel's 'playing dumb' face may be the loveliest of all the characters.
Takeuchi You did insist on including it with the character CG. (laugh)
Nasu Yeah. When I saw a rough sketch of that, I was dead set on having you keep it.
Takeuchi I think Ciel was the cutest during the earliest rough draft. (*9)
I liked that plain aspect about her.
Takeuchi Afterwards, we made some changes... the second Ciel (*10) got especially bad reactions. My superior at work even said "You can't use that." That's how we got to the Ciel we know now.
The biggest change was giving her sideburns.
Nasu Sideburns! Take them off and she powers up!
Didn't you say they were important tools to conserve her power, like a propeller tanks or something. (laugh)
Takeuchi The music composer, KATE, said the sideburns looked cool, like Kurumada Masami's. (*11)
Nasu When Ciel's at school, she's a senpai who looks out for her juniors, when she's in her clerical robes she's an assassin, and when she's in her full combat sleeveless uniform, she's a martial artist (like Gouki). That was our silhouette image of her.
Takeuchi Yeah... we even planned to have an erotic scene of her in her clerical robes. We ended up not doing it, though.
In her robes?! That would have been hot.
Nasu Those robes can be flipped up all the way from the underneath... Like a Teru teru bozu, woosh...
Ah, okay, we're talking about erotic stuff now, so let's talk about Ciel's erotic scenes. (laugh)
Nasu Ahaha. I'll leave this to Takeuchi-sensei, then!
Takeuchi We thought about anal from the beginning with Ciel.
Nasu Yes. The concept was "using every one of her holes." Because she was so forgiving.
Takeuchi About that, of the H scenes in the free demo, I still think Ciel's the most erotic of all. (laugh)
That was definitely very erotic. (laugh)
Takeuchi Yeah, even more erotic than the scenes in the main game. Strictly, it wasn't meant to be, but it had so much impact.
Nasu Ugh... I don't want to remember those floppy disk demos. I was still working at that time, and my heart was beating very fast as I completed it since it was my first time writing erotic scenes. I was just so desperate searching for my own "style" of erotic scenes.
There was even a glasses ON/OFF switch in the complete edition. (laugh)
Takeuchi I had wanted to do that from the beginning. Because personally, I didn't want them to have their glasses on in the erotic scenes.
Nasu But while you were drawing them with glasses, I remember you whispering "...I think I finally understand why people have glasses fetishes." ♪
Takeuchi I thought Ciel's erotic scenes were cuter with her glasses on. (laugh) I had barely finished them in time, but I'm glad I made it.
They got a good response. In fact, I think the majority of people went through those scenes with the glasses on. (laugh)
Takeuchi Didn't you say you had fun writing Ciel's erotic scenes?
Nasu Yeah, it was fun. Unlike other girls, senpai takes the lead during sex. Mmm? Was there a clear lead...?
Takeuchi Sometimes Shiki teases, and sometimes it's senpai. I think both Ciel's scenario AND erotic scenes were the most dramatic. Simple, but flashy! 「Makai Tensho」! (*12)
Nasu Right. Ciel was a really easy character to move around.
Takeuchi She's all-powerful, in a different way from Arc. She's convenient...heheheh...
Nasu The one in 「Tsukihime」 who gets her hands dirty. That's Ciel-senpai. An adult woman!
Nasu Looking back over Ciel's plot notes, I found a memo that said "matching glasses."'s no big deal, but I thought it'd be cute if she said it.
Takeuchi There's a lot of things like that. When we decided to write down and put together all the things we wanted to do during a meeting, I found one that said "They debut as a band. But after five years, they lose their guitar player..." (*13)
Nasu Wahahahahaha!
I have no idea what you guys are talking about. (laugh)
Takeuchi Shall we move on to the next topic?
Nasu OK, next topic. Come on, ask a question!
I dunno, I'm having trouble moving ahead today... (laugh)
Nasu Hurry up! 「SF3」 (*14) is waiting.
Tell it to keep waiting!
Takeuchi 「BR3」 (*15) is waiting.
Nasu Even though you have no one to play with.
Takeuchi The god-like computer is my opponent.
We're not making any progress! (cries)
You had a model for Arcueid, how about Ciel?
Takeuchi What do you think, Nasu?
Nasu Ciel's model? It was Qrowbet. (*16) ...I think. Yeah, and that secretary Take-chan drew for 「Limitlessly Blue」. (*17)
Design-wise, there's a bit of Kurobe (*18) in there too.
Nasu As far as I know, there's no strict model, though.
Takeuchi Where did the 'she likes curry' thing come from?
Nasu Ciel and curry? Oh boy, here we go.
Is this some shocking new truth we're about to hear?
Nasu Ciel's father is a baker who looked at naan bread as a rival. He even says to his daughter Ciel: "Don't you dare eat any curry, no matter what. Even if it kills you. No, in fact, completely erase it from your mind." Ever since then she's distanced herself from curry.
Takeuchi Seriously? (laugh)
Nasu She had to go defeat a Dead Apostle in India as her first job with the Burial Agency, though, and so she met with some curry there. The offensive and eccentric taste shocked her. "Dad was keeping such a delicious food all to himself!" And she became obsessed with it.
Takeuchi The Indian Dead Apostle... why does that make me laugh? (laugh)
OK, how much of that is true?
Nasu By the way, the Dead Apostle who fed her curry at that time was called Curry Du Marche. He eventually joins the 27 Ancestors, as the comedy representative...
Takeuchi You need to do something about that compulsive lying of yours. (*19) You almost had us there...
Nasu Up until Curry Du Marche, it's all true.
Takeuchi Doesn't that make most of it true?!
It started to sound really suspicious starting at the going to India part!
Nasu I told you, there's nothing romantic about Ciel's curry story. There's just fiction that sounds made up. Lies and truth!
Takeuchi You've completely lost me!
After Roa disappeared, did the "Counter Force" leave any effects on Ciel's body?
Nasu The moment Roa disappeared, Ciel lost her immortality. Ah, but the self preservation magic she had learned is still there, and thanks to that she was fine. As usual, she's built for playing rough.
Takeuchi How much magic potential does Ciel have?
Nasu Far above that of an A rank mage. In terms of Ciel's excellent qualities, the ceiling of her power to preserve magic energy is extremely high.
So how much of a gap is there between her and a normal mage?
Nasu Let's say a normal mage can keep a large beer mug's worth of magic energy within himself. Ciel can keep a metal washbowl's worth. No, a poly-tank's worth. As far as battles are concerned, normal mages use water guns, while Ciel can fight with a water hose.
Takeuchi For some reason I have an image of her fighting with swords and guns like a warrior, but she's actually pretty strong as a mage.
Nasu Yeah, because that's what she really is. She doesn't like it, though. She's basically good at everything, and she can use any weapon. She has no favorites, but guns are the only one she likes.
Takeuchi Is she good at magic?
Nasu Yes, actually, it's more like she just knows a lot of magic. She just hardly ever uses them, so she's wasting her talent. There's more magic she knows that she's never used.
Takeuchi So just like Arc, Ciel also has a lot of data that wasn't talked about in the actual game.
I bet there's a ton. Her work, her past...
OK now, let's talk about the game's strongest weapon, the Seventh Holy Scripture.
Nasu That was originally something made from the horn of a unicorn, a phantasmal beast (*20) that was made into a weapon by the Burial Agency. It was originally a holy symbol, kind of like the finishing move, something used in etiquette to mark the end. But then it started to be used as a weapon.
So it was that kind of crazy weapon from the beginning?
Nasu In the beginning it was just like a spear or a stake, but as it started to be transformed into a weapon, it changed into a more practical type of bayonet. wasn't perfectly a bayonet, though. It still had some dignity as a holy book, shape-wise... but then Ciel, who loves heavy firearms, changed it into a bulky Pile Bunker. (*21)
Why a Pile Bunker...?
Takeuchi Nasu wanted an organic, bulky horn at first. I thought that lacked impact, so I said, why not just make it a Pile Bunker? And that's what it became.
Nasu I thought of the entire idea by going for the impact of using the name "The Seventh Scripture" but having it not be a book, but an actual weapon utilized against Dead Apostles (visually).
Takeuchi I had a hard time thinking up an image. I found out it was an unicorn horn from the White Book on the train on the way to hand the finished 「Tsukihime」 in to POPLS.
Takeuchi If he had told me earlier... I could have, uh... (bitter laugh) It was a design that I have a lot of problems with, that I regret, so if I ever get a chance, I'd like to renew it.
You could make it into an updated version that represents Ciel's tastes even more! (laugh)
We have the Ciel who works with the Burial Agency, and the gentle senpai Ciel. Which is the real one?
Nasu The gentle one.
So she shows her real self at school.
Takeuchi I wonder which one is real. All characters in 「Tsukihime」 have a lot on their shoulders, so I think in many cases, right after they have sex, they're able to be more honest. I think Ciel's the same way.
Nasu Yes, Like Shiki, relaxing and drinking tea in late afternoon is important to her.
What kind of a school life does she lead?
Nasu She goes to class. She sits in the back of the class, out of everyone else's view, and enjoys listening to the teacher. She also runs through the hall helping people out. She also tricks the teachers into letting her have the tea ceremony room, even making them give her a budget so that she can eat all the sweets she wants... hm? Maybe she's actually a really smart criminal?
Takeuchi The smooth criminal Ciel! 「Demon Deathchase」! (*22)
In the popularity vote the other day, Ciel got 5th. What do you think?
Takeuchi I think there was a sudden rush right before the deadline.
Nasu No... it's just how I imagined it'd go. Really. Ciel was made for the #2 spot, not #1. (*23) She isn't the type to get in front of everyone and speak her mind.
Takeuchi True, she isn't the character for the #1 spot. But she is the most charming.
Nasu Yeah. Honestly, I like all characters equally, but I'm glad Ciel caught up. I wish all five characters had gotten the #1 spot together.
Takeuchi I was just worried she'd lose to Satsuki (laugh) (*24) Even though she's part of the pillar of the oldest 3 heroines.
Nasu ...I guess that's it.
Takeuchi We certainly took our time.
I still have a few questions left...
Takeuchi Alright, that's it for tonight's chat!
Nasu Next time is Akiha!
OK then, we'll see you next time at Staff Roundtable Night 3 - Akiha. Ahh, it's really over now! (laugh)
Takeuchi OK? We're done for tonight, right?
Nasu Yep. OK, we'll be leaving now. Goodnight.
Takeuchi Night!
Thank you!
The End of the Second Night
(Interviewer: OKSG)
The First Night
This is the explanation corner for all the confusing things that came up during the interview. Reading along with this is recommended.
Please Quest Me

Apparently Kinoko was trying to say "Give the questions all to me" in English. He's a writer, yet he speaks on direct impulses, so he ends up using a lot of gibberish.
Flowers of Ice

「Koori no Hana」. A traditional fantasy novel by Nasu Kinoko. There is absolutely no magic, just a plain knight. It hasn't been released. It follows the trials and tribulations of a main character who was raised as the "son of a legendary swordsman." Chime is one of the few female characters who appear in it.
Couldn't tell them apart

Apparently Arc and Ciel were planned to antagonize each other from the start, so they were always compared with each other.
In other words, they were like light and darkness, front and back, Arc and Alt. Of course, it could get confusing, so that name was scrapped.
Angel Notes

Another novel by Nasu Kinoko. It was collected in the doujinshi 「Angel Voice」. Roa appeared in a draft that was the basis for this story.
Kara no Kyoukai

A novel by Nasu Kinoko. It was serialized on the Bamboo Broom homepage. It's a story about another Shiki, who can see lines of things that can be easily broken.
"Hey, wanna write a story for our homepage, Nasu?"
"Your page? Uh, sure, if you're ok with like 30 pages or so."
...that's how it all started.
The supernatural logic is all explained in the beginning of chapter three. The professor explains it in a very strange manner, so if you have some time on your hands, go check it out.
The first main character

The novel where the world rules of 「Tsukihime」 and 「Kara no Kyoukai」 were originally created was the novel 「Mahoutsukai no Yoru」.
It was a story built around the concept "romantic + school life + magic + living together in a western house + mystery," a model for the Nasu Kinoko we know now.
It was written eight years ago, and at the time, Nasu Kinoko thought he wouldn't be able to write anything better than that for the next ten years.
In the end, he and others have acknowledged that.
The main character is the human missile launcher, Aozaki Aoko (a second-year in high school). She's the main character, yet she doesn't have any cute qualities.
The L'arc en Ciel incident

L'arc en Ciel means bow in the sky, or rainbow.
Ciel loves projectiles, and her name connects to bows... anyway. For some reason, the scenario writer got to thinking Ciel = bow, but in the beta version for some reason it said "Ciel = sky," and "L'arc = bow." They couldn't change it at that point, so Ciel-senpai continued as Ciel-senpai.
As a result it was also decided that she was "good at air combat." Sky high!
But she is cute

He's just enamored with his own creations.
Her roughest

The very first drawing of Ciel. This "normal" air she has is really something.
The second Ciel

The second version after the initial. Ciel's design was the hardest to pin down during the character design stage.
Kurumada Masami

Every Japanese male knows this seishun manga artist. He's currently drawing 「Ring ni Kakero 2」. His works always have the same atmosphere, not sure if that's a good thing or not.
Makai Tensho

For TYPE-MOON, this refers to Ishikawa Ken's manga adaptation of Yamada Fuutarou's novel. It strongly influenced Nasu and Takeuchi when they were in middle school. Looking back at it, it still is an entertaining work, how much power does it have?
They debut as a band, but after five years, they lose their guitar player

Meaning unclear.
Kinoko makes a lot of notes like this. Recently we found a mysterious scrawl reading "Chobitsu" on the edge of the image list for the festival disc.

「Street Fighter III」.
Apparently, there was an epic battle happening behind Nasu during the chat.

「Bloody Roar 3」.
The little mole who transforms in school uniform mode is very lovely.

A lower class valkyre who appears in Takeuchi's manga 「Valkyria 2」.
She's the cutest heroine by far out of all the girls who appear in 「Valkyria」. Seriously. I wish I could have one of my own.
Limitlessly Blue

Takeuchi's original tabletop RPG which he GMed.
At the time, it was popular to make up your own rules for games. Nasu's 「Tetsu no Monsho」 (Iron Emblem) was the masterpiece of these, but it's too epic to explain here.
This one had too many ideas stuffed into it, so it fell apart, but the ideas Nasu and Takeuchi came up with at that time were later put into their works. Takeuchi's doujin manga 「Valkyria」 was born from this. Its title resembles 「Under a Limitlessly Blue Sky...」 (Hateshinaku Aoi, Kono Sora no Shita de...) but has nothing to do with it. The title actually comes from the band Soft Ballet. The secretary in question is Cipher Neuvelvourg. What a name.

Nickname of Qrowbet, heroine of 「Valkyria 2」.
They planned to release a lunchbox with her picture on it called "Kuroben" (TL note: A pun on bento, or lunchbox) but it never came to light.
Compulsive lying

His biggest lie in recent years was "The opening theme of 「Infinite RYVIUS」 was sung by Koyanagi Yuki."
Victim: Takeuchi.
In his teens, he even said "I'm an alien from planet liar, so I have to lie at least once a day or I'll die."
...we wish he'd just go back home.
Phantasmal Species

An all-encompassing name for the beings that appear in the legends and mythology in the story. Outside reasons cause certain life-forms to transform, some gaining the power to think like humans, and others achieving higher states of existence. The creatures used as familiars also fall into this category. Rank-wise, it goes - wild beasts -> magical beasts -> phantasmal beasts -> sacred beasts. 1,000 year old phantasmal beasts and sacred beasts possess mysteries equal to that of magic, so they cannot be dealt with, and are treated on an equal level with magic itself.
Pile Bunker

An Anti-AT weapon that uses explosion to propel a spear.
Terrible stories exist about entire AT squads being decimated by an AT with a magazine of these.
Demon Deathchase

The third 「Vampire Hunter」 novel. The basis for 「Bloodlust」. They made us wait too long.
Incidentally, the first DVD Takeuchi bought was the 1985 「Vampire Hunter D」 film.
#2, not #1

Often said by emperor types. Ah, I can think of another one who uses tiddlywink-like projectiles, too.
I was worried she'd lose to Satsuki

Sacchin, or Yumizuka Satsuki, a character so popular she threatens the main five heroines.
She was called "Ciel Killer Yumizuka" during the voting, and was feared by Ciel fans.