Talk: Nasu Kinoko X Urobuchi Gen

A conversation between TYPE-MOON's Nasu and Nitroplus' Urobuchi on making games and more. Originally appeared in the jacket of the Kara no Kyoukai Drama CD.

Nasu Kinoko -- A scenario writer at TYPE-MOON. His Tsukihime was a doujin game, but possessed such a dense volume of content and high quality that it shocked the bishojo game world when it was released. He wrote Kara no Kyoukai.

Urobuchi Gen -- A scenario writer at Nitroplus. His works Phantom ~Phantom of Inferno~ and Vampirdzhija Vjedogonia are based in violent worlds, and his special touches have attracted many fans.

Do you shave off or load up on content when you create?

Nasu: I'll start by discussing Kikokugai: The Cyber Slayer. That game really shocked me. How long did it take you to create that?

Uro: I had its structure planned for quite a while, and then I just put together a scenario much later. I hardly did any kind of data collecting. I was working at the time, so I didn't have much leeway, but I was finally just like "I can't take it anymore, please let me write this!" (Laughs), so I started writing the day after I got some time. The idea was to make it as quickly as possible, so there were no production planning meetings or anything like that. It took about five months.

Nasu: That's so fast!!

Uro: Yeah. That's my all-time record. Like I said, though, I had the structure ready.

Nasu: Ahh, that makes me feel better. (Laughs) I thought you had created all that from nothing.

Uro: There's no way I could do that! (Laughs)

Q: So you had wanted to write Kikokugai for a long time?

Uro: Yes. It wasn't very sellable at the time, though. I'm surprised they let me. (Laughs)

Nasu: If you put choices in a revenge tale, the revenge cycle crumbles. Is that why you didn't put choices in?

Uro: If there was some choice like "Revenge is bad, I guess I won't do it after all," then it'd become a completely different story. (Laughs)

Nasu: I'm sort of jealous/fascinated by how much damage Kikokugai did to me. Experiencing it was...(deep sigh) (Laughs) Did you create the written parts of Vjedogonia and Phantom specifically for the games?

Uro: With Vjedogonia, yes.

Nasu: Kikokugai seemed to be filled with Uruobuchi sentences.

Uro: True. No one stopped me back then. (Laughs)

Nasu: I really enjoyed it.

Uro: I got worried that I might reach a dead end with that style, though. I didn't create Kikokugai with the intent to get any sort of admiration from the users...we have a lot of writers at Nitroplus now, so it wouldn't be unusual if I sort of wore out my welcome like that (laughs). Users who've experienced those two games probably already have a very vivid image of me formulated in their minds. Like, "oh, so this is the kind of bastard Urobuchi is." That's where I reach my limit as a creator. But I don't mind, really.

Nasu: It's like being seen completely naked.

Uro: Yep, I've taken off all I can. (Laughs)

Nasu: What will happen with your next work, then?

Uro: Yes, I think I need to start doing data collecting.

Nasu: So you've already taken as much from within as you can?

Uro: Everything that had a shape, that is.

Nasu: So it's like you just threw out all your old clothes. (Laughs)

Uro: Indeed. I still read voraciously though. (Laughs)

Nasu: I see, so that's how you keep your data fresh. Don't take this the wrong way, but don't you find that the more you do that, the harder you start to work? Do you ever worry about when you'll get out of breath?

Uro: If I get out of breath during crunch time, it's game over, so I try to cut corners in other ways during those times. At our company, I'm in charge of cutting things in our projects. When things get out of control, I go into "purge" mode. (Laughs)

Q: So instead of trying to add as much as possible, you're more concerned about what to cut?

Uro: You can split the span of production into two stages. In the data collecting stage, you try to stuff in as much as you can, but when the day comes when you try and actually create it with all the money you've saved up, that's when you start cutting. It's like the cutting room in film terminology. You shoot as much as you can until you have no more film left, then you start cutting. Then all that's left is to put it all together. Even if I happen to find something later and think, "Well, I kinda like that," I'll still just cut it.

Q: And you, Nasu-san?

Nasu: I always try to push myself to the limit...if I have ten bags, I try to make ten ideas to fit them. And then if I still have ideas left over, I think about making new bags to fit them in. I end up with a lot leftover...part of me really wants to give the users a great experience, but I know that these days, people don't spend one or two weeks on games. I know it's good to make something that can be finished quickly and enjoyed all the way through, but I've always been a stuffer.

Uro: I think that's part of the charm of your works, Nasu-san. Even if one of your works ended in an hour, I think of that as just one hour in an entire history. It has depth. I'm really amazed, you know, when I read something like Tsukihime Dokuhon and see how everything was so planned...it's really amazing. Really. (Laughs)

Nasu: Honestly, I'm not sure whether my work is being properly represented through that. (Laughs)

Uro: It's like showing one part of something, or one edge of a glacier. I think that sort of unseen expanse is really attractive.

Nasu: I don't -- and I know you'll probably laugh when you hear this, but -- I don't want to lie about anything. That's the one aspect of my old works that I still treasure -- when I make rules in the beginning, I try to stick with them through the end.

Uro: You mean like drawing a timeline beforehand, like Nagano Mamoru-san did with Five Star Stories.

Nasu: Yes.

Uro: That's pretty intense. I really love that. If you read the timeline first, all the information flows into your head like something from a textbook. And all the important points in the story appear in the timeline, too, so reading the manga I was always like "Oh no...this is that one part in the timeline where...!" You get the same great feeling a second time.

Nasu: I used to think that knowing the ending before you read something would cut down on the excitement, but as long as other people share your opinion, I know that's not true. (Laughs)

Uro: When readers figure out who a certain character is or which historical scene it is they're reading, they feel a special excitement, like "I'm experiencing a historical moment!" ...In fictional history, that is. (Laughs)

Nasu: That's the ideal scenario. I'd love to get there...

Uro: Oh, I think the Nasu World has plenty of potential.

Nasu: Well, thank you. (Laughs) There are certain creators who get really deep into one world and have trouble getting out of there, you know? You don't seem to have that problem with your works, though. They're all set in their own independent worlds, beautifully reflecting your style. I'm really jealous.

Uro: I suppose that's because I only write what I know.

Nasu: All of your works so far have been different genres, but they all have a sense of unity to them. Kikokugai, Vjedogonia, and Phantom are all set in different worlds, but it's SO obvious that they're Urobuchi works! I think it's amazing how easily they can be identified.

Uro: Well, you know, I was trying to break out of that mold, but I guess I failed.

Nasu: Meaning?

Uro: I thought about turning things over with Vjedogonia. I wanted to make it seem like someone completely different from the author of Phantom had written it, but I got extremely frustrated. (Laughs) And the next thing I knew, the main character was going to school... (Laughs)

Nasu: (Laughs) Was Vjedogonia intended to be a school drama at the start?

Uro: Yeah, with childhood friends. (Laughs) And I figured I'd throw in a big-breasted girl with glasses too. When I started to really cement the characters, though...I realized I didn't know how to start moving them through the story. (Laughs)

Nasu: I understand that pain. (Laughs)

Uro: And then my staff were always just saying stuff like "Yeah, this guy's got no battle strength." (Laughs)

Nasu: Without putting in normal people, users can't really get a sense for how strong the truly strong characters are, but if you make a normal person the heroine, then it becomes a challenge on how to use her.

Uro: By the time the childhood friend became a karate master...I just realized "I guess this is the only kind of story I know how to write." (Laughs) I had no intention to put a karate master in at the start, you know.

Nasu: That childhood friend was just so energetic. (Laughs)

Uro: Childhood friends are there to support. (Laughs) At the time, I was re-reading volumes of Grappler Baki. (Laughs) Next thing you know, I completely changed the character...

Everyone: (Loud laughter.)

New works are born out of everything that we've cultivated up until now.

Nasu: So basically, in the beginning, you create the setting, and then as you start to write the story things just start to fall into place...

Uro: Oh, no, the setting always comes later for me. I sort of accept that there are various settings that would work well with the story...it's like I receive radio waves, and if I think "something's wrong with the code I got," then I fix it according to how I feel.

Nasu: You instantly fix it? In your head?

Uro: Yep, however the waves tell me to. (Laughs)

Q: Do the users ever point out things to you that make you go "Oh, yeah, good point?"

Uro: Yep, all the time.

Nasu: I'm afraid of being told things like that. Like they're going to call me a liar or something. (Laughs) My fear pushes me to perfect my stories.

Uro: I'm always bungee jumping...and blindly believing in the radio waves. (Laughs) So if there are contradictions in my stories, then that just means my antennas got mixed up for a bit.

Q: So even if there is a contradiction, you still keep on pushing ahead?

Uro: Yes. If I get afraid of it, then I'll end up stopping...I have to believe in that person who's sending me the radio waves. (Laughs) So I really have no grasp on the scope of the entire world. I can only really become an observer of each separate scene...the ones who truly get the bird's-eye-view are the readers. I feel like I'm really making a dangerous gamble with that, though. (Laughs)

Nasu: Real success at making stories means that all of a sudden, you find yourself with this beautiful blueprint ready to be worked on.

Uro: Sometimes I feel...like there's something lurking inside of me. (Laughs)

Nasu: Some magical muse. (Laughs)

Uro: Yes, like I have a special friend or something. (Laughs)

Nasu: I'd like one myself, personally. (Laughs)

Uro: That's why I'm really scared. If that friend stops sending me radio waves all of a sudden, then I'm finished. (Laughs) That's why...it may seem selfish, but I don't accept many revisions. Even if someone says something simple like "Can we please put in this image here?" I say "Sorry, but that wasn't in the waves." (Laughs)

Nasu: I know you were in charge of everything on Kikokugai, but with Phantom and Vjedogonia, did you plan where the event scenes would happen and which images went where?

Uro: Yes, I had great control over Phantom. Ah, but when I came up with the plot, the president of Nitroplus, Mr. Dejitarou, being a car lover, sort of interfered. "Put in some kind of car," he said. (Laughs) So I had one of the characters ride in one. (Laughs)

Nasu: The skyscraper car chase scene in Kikokugai was very exciting. I was enthralled.

Uro: Thank you very much.

Nasu: I really want to play the next part, but I feel like I need to take my time or else it'd be a waste. Whenever I finish one chapter, I try to take a break...like for an hour...but I can never be patient. (Laughs) Anyway, I really loved it.

Uro: To be honest, I think I should have put more content in that game...there's always one person out of the five that ends up having no purpose. When you get to that point, the development sort of stops at the primary and secondary character, and then sort of struggles to give development to the third. You see, before I began the project, I had already thought up the catchphrase: "Revenge takes five people." (Laughs)

Nasu: Hahahaha! (Laughs)

Uro: After that, everyone kept pestering me. "How many people does it take again?!" "Uhhh...five?" (Laughs) I was just pushing forward on momentum alone. I didn't even let the staff read the script until we were in the debug stage.

Nasu: When I start planning a game, I'm so busy with work that I can't see any of the other sides of the production process. I just show the plot to other staff members, explain how it works, and then leave the rest to them. In a way, they really trust me.

Uro: Same with our company. I do worry time to time though.

Nasu: Yeah, like, you know it's interesting to yourself, but what about other people?

Uro: I...simply determine whether or not something's good on my own.

Nasu: Ohh, so you're just sort of like "Well, the die has been cast?!"

Uro: More like, "Well, if it sucks, then that's not my fault, it's the radio waves' fault!" (Laughs)

Nasu: Ahahahaha!! (Loud laughter)

Uro: No, but the truth is...I have no idea if it's really good or not on my own. Basically, I'm pretty nervous all the time. But being nervous doesn't help much...so the only thing I can do is believe in the waves. (Laughs) Before I finish writing the script, I always find a bunch of flaws on my own. Like, "this will probably irk a lot of people"...or "I'm copying too much here"...but you know, I think that the users aren't bothered by a surprising amount of it.

Nasu: You're so right. Whenever you yourself think "this could be dangerous"...that's usually the part that critics ignore. And then you find them criticizing parts you didn't even notice, and you go "Ohhhh, I get it now.h

Uro: And I actually laugh at the parts that I realized I subconsciously copied from something else. Someone will tell me "You totally copied off ___ here!" and I'll go "What?! Well, now that you mention it, you're right!!" (Laughs)

Nasu: Hahahaha! (Laughs)

Uro: I get told "You put so many little jokes in", but I guess it's sort of like a nerve reaction. (Laughs) ...I suppose I just put them in unconsciously...

Q: Do you think the influence you get from other works happens unconsciously too?

Uro: Yes. My works are like compilations of all that influence. Even I have my doubts when it comes to adventure game elements, though. During a meeting, when I show a flow chart of an adventure game and I'm asked "Is this game?", it's hard for me to say "Yes."

Nasu: I don't really think of them as "game" games, but more like visual novels...

Uro: Mmm...yes, this is a tough question. It's a question of how much more adventure games can really pull the game industry. I feel like their influence is really declining. I feel like there are still ways to do them...but I also feel like there's a lot of general doubt towards the whole genre. Users always watch all the different endings of a game all at once, and feel that there's no difference between that and playing through the game each time for each different ending.

Nasu: And lately games' openings are all the same...including Tsukihime. Once a heroine comes in, though, the user can choose to follow her to the end, then they have to go back to the beginning and repeat everything.

Uro: Yes. The whole idea of really utilizing that outlook on the world to see varying possibilities...it's very convenient as the "soil" of a 2-D creation, and it may be what critics use to judge adventure games. But in that case, though, it isn't the "games," but the setting and the characters -- the "ingredients" that are being judged. With novels and movies, their one-track stories close the doors to all other possibilities. They negate all other possibilities. But games, on the contrary, throw the decision to the users, and let them play with the world as they wish. I think leaving the story open like that is how adventure games should be...it might even be their true purpose for existence. That's why I think true "game" elements or what have you may not really be what people want.

Nasu: I think the fact that there are so many meaningless choices in games today may add to some of that. But when you go into an unknown world for the first time and see a "left" or "right" decision that will clearly take your destiny down a different path, I think it gives the game charm...Age Soft does a lot of these "extreme choices," and I think that's where the true charm of adventure games lies. If you reload the save you'll be able to see what happens down to the other path, but you still won't know what's ahead on the path you're on now. So you end up playing both paths at the same time, going down one way and thinking "Oh, so if I had gone down this path back there, this would have happened..." Then, finally, the ending is completely different. It's like a jack-in-the-box. I think that's what makes adventure games fun.

Uro: When a jack-in-box is opened, it surprises the user, and then that's it. You have to wonder how long customers will keep paying for a one-trick horse like that.

Nasu: It has to do with how fleshed-out the contents of the game are...it's true even if you manage to surprise people once, there's still that worry that they'll eventually get bored with the product...however, remember the three greatest human desires: sleep, eating, and sex. (Laughs) If our game manages to connect to one of those (the erotic side), then we won't have to worry about people losing interest. (Laughs)

Q: So does game planning turn into a struggle of balance between erotic and other content?

Uro: To be honest, I think that you have to be extremely pessimistic with all adventure game stories. I try to think about what kind of game current customers who are interested in romance are looking for...and this is just my hypothesis, but I think games are fine as being kind of like tutorials, like what we were talking about earlier. They're packages of character materials, and then a scenario comes with it kind of like an example of what can be done with that package. It's just one example using someone's 2D guidelines, or imagination guidelines, or whatever...I've started to feel like things are fine staying this way. Using the character materials as a starting point, and then having the users use their own imaginations, is probably the best shape for a "moe game," I feel. And if that's true, then scenario writers have no purpose. So I'd be in danger...now I'm really starting to scare myself.

Nasu: I don't like criticizing others' works, but you know the game Hajimete no Orusuban? That really shocked me. I knew logically it was natural that it became a hit, but at the same time, I was really shocked. When that game came out, I thought about quitting making games. I just felt like I wouldn't be needed anymore.

Uro: Yes, I know how you feel.

Nasu: Until that point, it may sound naive, but I really believed in the power of the story. (Laughs)

Q: So are you saying that in order to make a really good game, you need no scenario writer?

Uro: It has to do with the difference between a "game scenario" and a "story scenario."

Nasu: I think from the start, you have to decide whether the plot is better suited toward a game or a novel. If you have a plot that's suited for a game, you have to make sure it's good just as a story too. I think that's what it means to be a game scenario writer. If you just write a story and it ends up having no game functionality, then I think it's better without any...

Uro: It depends on the planning and the system. For example, this will seem really extreme, but let's look at Street Fighter II. I actually think that game has great story power. When you try to think about it, you may find yourself wondering "How can he pull off a Shoryuken with such expert timing?!" And bam, there you already have a story. That's all coming from a system level, where you have things like "this character is a wait character, this character is a speed character." They're sowing the seeds of good stories in the basest settings of their characters. That's probably what I'm getting at when I talk about game stories.

Nasu: Because the materials are so limited, the users are forced to make live interpretations...

Uro: Or how about expansive stories? Things like rapid-fire comedy acts, tabletop RPGs...what's the right word for those kind of stories? Anyway, I think this sort of ad lib, "instance drama" storytelling is the kind of stories that are suited for games. In that case, though, it means the scenario writer doesn't need to work on writing ability or anything like that...

Nasu: So you mean their job is basically to decorate?

Uro: Decorate...yeah, that's all they can do. I think. For example, to read ahead and think "well, there could be an interesting combination here," and then set it up...basically to think up and set up entertaining combination patterns.

Nasu: Yeah. You know what I think must be really difficult, is to make a fighting game...the action in those games is what processes the story, right? I think the best example is when using a special move changes the scene that comes next.

Uro: I think that great action games can make the best drama. For example, "This move is really strong, but it leaves me open." The problem is left in the users' hands. Like, "are you man enough to use this move?!" (Laughs) "You're gonna be countered no matter what, you know?"! The excitement is in getting put in a sticky situation and still having the guts to use such a move...then getting lauded for it later. (Laughs)

Q: There is a lot of "imagine the details for yourselves" kind of situations in entertainment these days, do you think that games should be including these situations too?

Uro: Hmmm...honestly, I think that good scenarios have no need for any kind of those situations. Whether or not it makes the users happy or not, those are the kind of scenarios we respect. With that said, though, I think if we were to create simply with that idea in mind, our ideas would stray far from what a "good game" is.

Nasu: Good scenarios for games don't create a single construction, but lay out every single part, and then let the users connect them to create a finished product.

Uro: I think that's the best case scenario. And even better if the finished product is more entertaining than the separate parts.

Nasu: But what about leaving situations up to the players? I know there are some players who will always come up with crazy ideas...and to them, it'll turn into a situation they like, so it'll be extremely entertaining to them, but...

Uro: True, if you're looking at adventure games as games "you don't need technique to enjoy," then there's no real problem. With action games, in order to enjoy the story and the real drama, you need to have mastered the system to a certain level, and someone watching you do it won't have any idea what's going on. I think, though, that ever since Virtua Fighter came out, the number of people who enjoy those kinds of games has been dropping. Maybe that sort of game is going out of style...maybe games are things that should be enjoyed on a lighter scale. Either way, adventure games aren't games that are meant to be "played well." Let's look at Alicesoft's Daiakuji. This is a deep, difficult game, but whenever the player makes a mistake, they can always just go restart from a save file. Where's the drama in that? (Laughs)

Nasu: I have a hardcore friend who "never makes a single save file when playing games like Daiakuji. And I think that to people like them, games like Daiakuji are a lot of fun. Because you can't look back. I think normal users, though, when they miss a certain event, will go back and reload their save...

Uro: It really makes you question the needs of the users.

Q: What do you think about online RPGs? Do they have a sort of live ad lib appeal to them?

Uro: Yeah, we really can't compete with them. That's why we strive for a higher quality story. The only thing is, when I'm asked "Should you be writing stories specifically FOR games," I start to wonder.

Nasu: I wonder why there are so many pornographic games like these being published. Maybe not when compared to consumer games, but there are still a lot, and it creeps me out...because I don't know why. What's the big attraction?

Uro: Because it's a springboard for many things that would never appear in consumer games.

Nasu: I do think there are a lot of users who like these games because they can enjoy a totally different type of game than their typical consumer games. But now I'm starting to see less and less of the types of games that I actually like. I start to think there's no demand for them anymore.

Q: Pornographic games stimulate lust...is stimulating lust the same thing as stimulating the imagination? In regard to "moe" games, is that the only thing that separates them from consumer games?

Uro: Well, with erotic games, they're made with the foresight that they're going to make the users fantasize no matter what.

Nasu: 5 or 6 games come out a week, so I think a lot of people shy away from them as games that require a lot of stamina to keep up with. Personally, though, I'd like to enjoy a brand-new game within one or two days, in a short time period...that's why I love Kikokugai. (Laughs)

Uro: Hahaha! (Laughs) You know, since I make a living off making games, I've completely lost my idea of how many hours of gameplay = satisfaction. I spend dozens of hours on action games, so... (Laughs)

Nasu: I think you pretty much have to go to consumers with an action game for it to survive, don't you think? Because PC users want these erotic games that they can enjoy within a short time span, get through quickly, and find something to "moe" about. They're looking for a more compact experience.

Uro: I thought Daiakuji would change the erotic game world, but they still keep coming out day after day...so it's like nothing's really changed. (Laughs)

Nasu: I don't think typical studios possess the stamina it takes to create a game like Daiakuji...we adults don't have the time we used to, you know? University students, now they have a lot of time on their hands, so their perspective changes. Since they have so much time, they may prefer games that they can enjoy for longer...which will survive? (Laughs)

Uro: Full-time workers and university students do use their time quite differently.

Nasu: We usually get home around 9 or 10 PM...once we eat and take a shower, we only have about two hours to play games...and if I had two hours, then I'd play Devil May Cry. (Laughs)

Uro: "Hahahaha!" (Laughs)

Q: Sim games these days truly take hours upon hours to complete. Once people grow up and get jobs, they find that they don't have the time to really play through games anymore...

Nasu: Although, when I buy games and see "takes 100 hours to complete" on the box, I think "Wow, so I get to play it for 100 hours!"

Uro: Where do you squeeze out 100 hours from?! (Laughs) I don't think games can sell solely on hours of gameplay like they used to be able to...

Nasu: I think more and more people will start to want more from the graphics side. Like, 100 CGs won't be enough...really? Is that really not enough? (Laughs) I think the new average level will become something like 100~150 CGs...I mean, look at how much they're charging for a game! 8,800 yen! I think I may be digging my own grave with this comment. (Laughs) Takeuchi-kun's gonna kill me. (Laughs)

Uro: I've been hearing that a lot, actually. And things like "What constitutes the 8800 yen price tag?"

Nasu: If everyone would approve of it from a business perspective, I'd like to price our games at 8,800 yen too. As long as we don't spend money on other things, though, (like advertising, etc.) then I think we can price them cheaper.

Uro: You know, I think, completely unrelated to business, that we just need money. We have a bond of trust between the creative people and the management people in my company, so we can both focus on our separate roles. It really helps. If we were both poking our noses in the other's business, things just wouldn't work out. Especially me.

Q: Is that the biggest difference between normal business and the doujin world?

Nasu: Working as a team means that everyone needs to understand that the company is the crux of everything. Without that, it's just for fun. But if people don't work seriously, then no profit will come in. I really think that it's the great companies out there who have good relationships between the creative and business sides.

Q: From a solely game creation perspective, what are the big differences and limitations between the doujin and business worlds?

Nasu: Doujin games don't get caught up in planning or by company things. In short, they can do whatever they want...I suppose. The only problem, I guess, would be freedom of expression, whether or not it would be something that would involve the EOCS (Ethics Organization of Computer Software)...generally, though, they can let their imaginations run loose. I think the rest of the differences would be on a technological/sales level. I think one of the biggest differences is that with doujin games, people sort of buy them for fun. It's a place where you can put out a soft, weaker game and not really be scolded for it. That's what it means to be doujin.

Q: And you, Urobuchi-san?

Uro: Well, I put out doujin games from a company, so... (Laughs)

Nasu: Hahaha! (Laughs)

Uro: It took some dodgy political dealings for me to get into this situation, though... (Laughs) It's all about bargaining tactics. How comfortable a creative zone I can get for myself. That's why I need to be cold about my own works at certain points. If I cut this off, then it'll help this other aspect come to life. I calculate it like that. As the commander, I always focus on how to achieve victory under the conditions I've been dealt. Which is the victory method that takes the least amount of casualties...one's wallet really has nothing to do with creativity, which is sad in a way. (Laughs) Yes, it's very sad.

Q: Finally, do you have any messages for your fans?

Uro: Hmm. To be honest, I expected to hear people say "Your career ended with Kikokugai, but if people will really enjoy this new stuff I'm putting out...then I'll keep on doing it! (Laughs)

Nasu: Yes, please continue.

Uro: If they'll appreciate me, then I'll keep going on forever. Uwahh...listen to how shameless I sound. (Laughs)

Nasu: I also thought Tsukihime had a lot of problems, but was surprised to see how much people enjoyed it, so I thought 'well, maybe I'll just do as I please from here on out.' (Laughs) Seriously, though, I want to try and keep my unique rhythm while aiming for a better product that will grab a wider audience. I want to try and be true to the old saying that "the third one is always better than the second." So I hope people are excited... (Laughs)

Uro: So you aren't going to say anything about future releases? (Laughs)

Nasu: Ummm... (He throws out some considerations.) Cut that part! (Laughs)

All: (Loud laughter.)

Recorded on April 26, 2002, in Hiyokoya, Akihabara.